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Pigeon
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:58 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


snowflake wrote:
BUT now i can feel the doubt that this sort of situation expresses unfortunatly, but really, a part of herself, by a way or an other...


If I've understood you correctly, then I'd think that that "part of herself" is that she just isn't really into internet stuff and isn't that bothered about it. The "Lucy stuff" on the net that she does definitely care about is the stuff that makes her money - her merchandise range and her mobile site.

The other stuff - forum, farcebook, twitter etc - she rates as of considerably less importance. She doesn't have a facebook account, she hardly ever tweets anything, and she only skims the official forum once in a blue moon (another point on which the official propaganda lies - people who post on it expecting Lucy to see their stuff are wasting their time).

And really, that's not a bad attitude to have... I go for internet stuff because I'm a nerd and because there isn't really anything else I can do to help Lucy. But I do have to admit that its influence is pretty small compared to the "original producers" - Nuts, Lynx, Bennetts etc.

There's a whole lot of guff talked on the internet about the "power of social media", but it's an illusion - its importance is way overblown. Farcebook in particular has nothing like the significance its supporters make it out to have... quite apart from the preponderance of gormless nitwits on it, the great majority of its users don't want to do anything other than mess about on farcebook itself - they don't want to click off the site (heck, only one in a few hundred can even be bothered to click the "Like" button, let alone do anything more involved). Since I run both this site and its associated facebook page I am well placed to observe that the click-through rates are appallingly low - a good order of magnitude less than one normally expects, if not worse. Twitter is similar, if not quite as bad. And I do notice that the "commercial promotion" threads on here don't generate as much interest as I would like.

Pretty well the only reason farcebook, twitter etc are worth bothering with at all is that they don't cost anything, and the main value of having a "presence" on them is simply to put the kybosh on idiots setting up fake pages. Their value for promoting the stuff that is important, while not quite zero, isn't far off it, because people simply don't "click through".

So I can fairly well sympathise with Lucy not really caring much about the internet stuff that doesn't directly make her money - given that she's pretty much the opposite of a nerd and so isn't into it for its own sake, there's not a whole lot of point her wasting effort on it.
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:47 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


From this site's home page: "The 'official' site makes deliberately misleading statements and tells outright lies. The 'official' site ignored Lucy herself appealing to people to help get her out of a situation where she was bullied to tears and instead told people to help keep her in that misery - exactly the opposite of what anyone who genuinely supported Lucy would do."

It's distressing to hear that this lovely and intelligent woman is apparently being taken advantage of. Being only hours new to this forum--and, albeit having heard/read very little, still pretty much disinclined to visit the "official" site ever again--can someone please point me to any of this forum's message "threads" that discuss this in greater detail? Thanks!
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Pigeon
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:28 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Well, there's been a fair bit of discussion of such matters quite recently - if you'd found this site last month you'd have dropped right into the middle of it...

Despite being a major contributor to those discussions - after all I do run this site - I do find them painful, and I'm rather glad that we seem to have taken them as far as we can at the moment. I'd prefer it if they weren't necessary but unfortunately since the situation is suboptimal then there exist matters pertaining to the suboptimality to discuss...

The official site maintains a preposterous pretence that everything is always perfectly all right regardless of how obvious it is that it's not all right - the passage you quoted refers to the most egregious example, when millions of people saw Lucy crying on TV and the official site still refused to acknowledge that there was anything imperfect about such a situation Sad

Other notable instances of such behaviour are:

- Most recently, Lucy's published output nearly drying up due to incompetent management... nine months went by with Lucy doing only three scrappy half-size features for publication, whereas up until then there would very rarely be an interval of more than two months between her having a full-size feature in print. The drop in output was sudden, dramatic, very very obvious, caused a lot of complaint, and also caused a lot of fans to think she'd stopped modelling altogether and to find it surprising when she did have something published. The official site refused even to acknowledge that this was happening - let alone to acknowledge that such a drop in Lucy's published output, which after all is the foundation on which everything else she does is built, could be a problem.

- I personally observed Lucy acting as if she was afraid even to speak without permission, after she had been entered by the same irresponsible management into an event run by some highly dubious characters. She was, in fact, acting exactly like someone I used to know very well who was the victim of domestic abuse. Whereas only a few weeks earlier she had been her usual happy, open, sparkling self. The official site again denied that there was anything wrong - despite my having seen it with my own eyes - and fabricated some quite outrageous lies which it then distributed privately to other sites in order to fuel a smear campaign to discredit these eyewitness observations. (The passage on the front page which you quoted was added in response to this smear campaign.)

- Last year the operation of the official site was taken over by a so-called "web designer" of quite staggering incompetence - again at the suggestion of irresponsible management. Their first act was to destroy four years' worth of forum content by moving the site to a new server and closing down the old one without bothering to recover the data off it. The site then spent four months burdened with a board package which was barely usable and suffering various other disasters until the level of dissatisfaction reached the point where the management finally had to admit their fault and booted this "web designer" off Lucy's site and also off all their other models' sites. (This thread was started after the incompetents had gone and their replacements had made it usable again.) Throughout this whole period the official site's position was one of denial that anything had gone wrong - seemingly oblivious to the preposterousness of posting such denials on a wrecked board with four years' worth of content missing.

There are other such things, but these are the most egregious.

Never once does the official site provide any justification for such irrationality - its position is always "believe black is white because we tell you it is", and its treatment of anyone who cites publically-available evidence and provides rational argument to show that black is indeed black follows a predictable path... (1) ignore, (2) respond with waffle which fails to address any of the questioner's points and doesn't constitute any kind of useful answer, (3) ignore the questioner pointing this out, (4) censorship, (5) banning.

It insists that it does this because "Lucy wants it that way"... thereby implying that Lucy is an ignorant boor, which of course she most certainly is not.

It also seems oblivious to the fact that its habit of insisting that the most obviously detrimental situations are "how Lucy wants it" makes her look as if she is too dumb to manage her own affairs or notice when things aren't up to scratch - when again this is not true... Lucy is highly intelligent and capable, but she is not the only one involved in any situation; the detrimental stuff is invariably due to others involved acting in their own self-interest instead of in Lucy's interest, but the official site either maintains the ridiculous position that nothing anyone else does affects what happens to Lucy, or just acts as if the other people don't exist.

To summarise: The official site's attitude is that when things are wrong they actually aren't wrong at all; that things are how they are because Lucy won't change it; and that because it's "official" it's somehow exempt from any obligation to provide rational justification for its statements regardless of how incompatible they are with observed reality.

Whereas this site's attitude is that when things are wrong it should be acknowledged and discussed; that things are how they are because of other people's interests and Lucy can't change it; and that observed reality - publically available information and deductions therefrom, which is where the vast majority of this site's content comes from - must of necessity take precedence over any ex-cathedra pronouncements which contradict observed reality.

Or you could say... the official site is religion, this site is science Hehe

And... it hurts. Contrary to what people probably think, I don't enjoy running this site... I hate it when bad things are in the air and we are discussing painful and unpleasant subjects. There are even times when I wish I could decamp to a desert island somewhere with no internet connectivity and forget Lucy ever existed Cry

But it wouldn't help anyone if I did that. The bad things would not go away as a result of being ignored... As I've said elsewhere on this site it often feels like I'm the only one who's actually on Lucy's side... the only one who defends her interests specifically, rather than subordinating them to protecting those who are responsible for things being less than perfect. And Lucy, just by doing what she does throughout her long career, has done so much to put a smile on my face during times of depression when nothing else has been able to, that I feel obliged to do what little I can by way of restitution.

Not to mention that if I didn't run this site I'd be letting down not only all the fans who enjoy it, but others too who may never even have heard of it but still appreciate the quality-oriented material which originates here.

It's about the only thing I do in my life which I do know is useful to a lot of people and makes them happier... which is the only way any of us can really justify our existence Smile

Sorry - this has gone on and on, I didn't mean to expound at such great length... I just can't do "succinct" Smile
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:23 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Phew. Thanks so much for the recap...particularly since this has obviously been well aired over the last few weeks. (No apologies needed for not doing succinct, btw. Not sure how you would if you could... Wink ) I'll have to immerse myself in the threads here to catch up some more...

Truly a shame to imagine this lovely woman in tears, and really hurting, for all to see. But sounds as though you've got many on your (and, by extension, Lucy's) side here. Hopefully, she knows that too. Excelsior!
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Pigeon
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:47 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


You're quite right. Bad enough to imagine it, but to have been sufficiently... fortunate? Not exactly... to know about it before it was broadcast... was almost like being punched in the head. Something like that happening to Lucy - in so public a way, and for public "entertainment" - is... a grave wrong... and also a demonstration that Lucy is a much better person than me Big Smile since she has put it behind her and moved on, whereas for me it still rankles.
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Poggy



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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:18 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Pigeon wrote:
whereas for me it still rankles.


Where as it does a few of us others too.

The worst thing is the lack of support that the official site seems to give Lucy at times Thumb Down
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snowflake



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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:25 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Pigeon wrote:
and also a demonstration that Lucy is a much better person than me Big Smile since she has put it behind her and moved on, whereas for me it still rankles.

Don't think that, nobody is better than an other. Ha! The BB episod! Great memory yeah! That is still rankles me, is that she didn't react with force against coolio for defending her person. Or she was tired inside this day and anyway she wasn't very comfortable in this silly broadcast, or she was very deeply touched by a kind of hurting truth. Sad Perhaps the both! I remembered that the official wanted members to support her, not for leaving the broadcast but for staying in (say me if i'm wrong) whereas it was obvious she was suffering. It was a theme of passionate discussions. Shoot That waked up in me for the first time, a feeling of inhumanity where she is really a product wich need to be always pushed on the front of the scene for buisness. Yuck
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Poggy



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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:28 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


snowflake wrote:
I remembered that the official wanted members to support her, not for leaving the broadcast but for staying in (say me if i'm wrong) whereas it was obvious she was suffering.


You are correct. Any member that spoke against keeping Lucy in on there was either Censored , edited or even worse spoken down to like a child.

For me this is what made me walk from the official site more than anything else. It wasn't so much the censorship, the editing of my posts or even the attacks on you giving a opinion. It was the pure lack of support for Lucy who you could clearly see wasn't happy. Plus I still believe Lucy never wanted to do it in the first place. But was pressured into it Thumb Down
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:56 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Same here... had I not been pushed I was on the verge of walking anyway. Until then I had been basically refusing to admit to myself what the official site really was, but that episode forced me to be honest with myself. I was appalled by their attitude that Lucy's misery did not matter, and by their treatment of anyone who did. I was also sickened by the selfish attitude of the majority of the members who mindlessly accepted this outrageous position and didn't care how miserable Lucy was as long as they got to see her on TV. I did not want to remain a member of a community that endorsed such attitudes. The only reason I stayed long enough to be banned was that several other members had left because they were disappointed in Lucy agreeing to do it in the first place and I didn't want her to get the impression that I was leaving for that reason. My intention was to wait for Lucy to make one of her vanishingly rare visits and then make a post addressed to her explaining why I was leaving... and I still suspect that the timing of my ban - immediately before she did visit - was because they had guessed what I was going to do.
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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:26 pm    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Pigeon, let's think positively, though. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that despite them giving you the bum's rush out of the Official, Lucy has somehow been made aware of your feelings (maybe even read them herself here?), and the support of others here as well.

Admittedly I can be a bit of a Pollyanna at times Big Grin . I firmly believe, though, that genuine concern and goodwill for another person invariably finds the way to its intended target, despite all attempts to divert or quash it.
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Poggy



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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:42 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


One thing that still always stands out in my mind though from all the time Lucy was in BB. Is everyone saying to me both off and on the internet. Isn't Lucy Pinder so boring, she's been on TV all this time and still not even walked around in he underwear. That is exactly what bugs me about people and stereo typing models. They think all they are is bimbos who walk around naked or near naked all day Thumb Down They just can't see that many of them aren't like that at all.
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snowflake



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Lucy's Official New ForumPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:33 am    Subject: Lucy's Official New Forum Reply with quote


Unfortunately, I think that nothing changed in the new forum. Difficult to know what is defended really in it: the interests of Lucy herself or of others around her?... and for what they do: the evolution of Lucy or their own proundness, glory and money? Sad ...very difficult.
Sorry if my words could be hard for GM, Nuts, official forum 's supporters, but it's a sincere feeling, without no influence of personnal revange or something else. Do what you want with it or do nothing, it's not my life. And I know i'm not the only one as Poggy & Pidgeon. Wink
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